Hi again everyone. It is seriously so fun to see you all analyze this stuff.
Be sure you're solid on scenes 2 and 3 before getting to scene 4; we see important action transpire via the players' play in scene 2 (some key moments-- Hamlet's speech to Horatio; the interactions between Hamlet and Ophelia; Claudius' reaction to the play; Hamlet's altercation with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. Another funny bit about this scene-- many people think that Hamlet's instructions to the players about not over-acting were Shakespeare's deliberate and indirect way of insulting of Will Kempe, the gregarious comedian who broke from Shakespeare's acting troupe in a huff. Tee hee.) You might discover other key points-- what moments from this scene do YOU find telling? Also, scene 3 gives us super interesting insight on Mr. Claudius, AND on Hamlet's revenge strategizing. I'm excited for you guys to discuss all that tomorrow. :)
Now! Onto scene 4: I will be very honest. Because this scene takes place in Gertrude's bedroom, and because it's just Hamlet and Gertrude, and because Hamlet is railing against her for her "bedroom choices," and because he's super worked up, some productions have taken this an extra step and have implied throught the acting that Hamlet is actually "into" his mother and turn it into an Oedipal thing. I have talked with several other English teachers about that, and-- other than the above mentioned circumstances-- there's really nothing in the text to warrant that. The RSC scene, although uncomfortable to watch, keeps it realistic and makes no such unwarranted Oedipal leaps. Pay especially close attention to the text when the ghost arrives. Gertrude's reaction to the ghost is hard to figure out; are there any specifications in text to help clarify it, or is this one more ambiguous moment from Shakespeare? These are all things to consider, but let your own ideas and analysis direct the conversation.
The scene is attached below, if you all like being able to see it played out:
Part One of the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOjpvNPr3JU
Part Two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay502y7aspo
Once again, you get to discuss this scene however you see fit. Keep your analysis grounded in the text (use quotes) and use proper grammar and spelling. Have at it!
I guess I will start this blog off. I think Hamlet looks insane when he is talking to the ghost because Gertrude keeps saying things like "To whom do you speak this?" (III.iv.135). When Hamlet keeps saying that there is someone there, Gertrude is most likely thinking, he really is going crazy. I feel bad for Hamlet because I think he really can see his father and that he is not crazy because Horatio and the rest of his friends saw the ghost as well. I don't understand why Gertrude didn't see the ghost. I do recognize that the ghost implies that she has no imagination when the ghost says, "Conceit in weakest bodies strongest works" (III.iv.118). Actually, now that I think about it, when the ghost says this, it makes Hamlet sound like he is mad because the word conceit implies imagination and that makes it sound like Gertrude doesn't see the ghost because she isn't imagining things. This makes me really struggle with whether Hamlet is imagining this or not. I want to think that he is not because Horatio saw the ghost too, but I don't know.
ReplyDeleteBryce! You brought up some good points and I think I'm still at the same spot with Hamlet; I don't know if he's crazy or not. In his rant with his mother, he definitely made some harsh but true points, however, when it was all over I didn't really see his motivation for saying what he said. Why do you think he lashed out this way? Obviously, he's not happy with his mother, I wouldn't be either, but do you think there's more to this? Maybe he's acting this way because he believes she's involved with his father's death. As for Gertrude, well, I feel like this scene was most revealing in terms of it showing us her true character. I feel like she's really emotionally and mentally unstable because it seems like she can never rely on herself; it's always other people. Her husband died and she doesn't even blink before she's marrying his brother. She goes from an accusatory, “Hamlet, thou has thy father much offended” (III.iv.10) to listening closely to Hamlet, agreeing with his harsh words, and then asking him, “What shall I do?” (III.iv.187) What new information did this scene reveal to you about Gertrude?
ReplyDeleteGreat observations of Gertrude's transformation during this scene Amy!
DeleteOk, so I want to tackle Gertrude. Like her character, not literally her. As Amy said, she's not very independent. I was peeved when Polonius tells her to "lay home to him. / Tell him his pranks have been too broad to bear with, / And that Your Grace hath screened and stood between / Much heat and him... / Pray you, be round with him" (III.iv.1-5) and she just agrees with it. She does not question Polonius at all and tells him she will punish him because of what the play did to the King. Also, she let him stay in the room while she and her son had a private chat, talk about killing the parents honor code.
ReplyDeleteI originally thought that Gertrude was a caring mother, but here, the fact that she does not even question her husband after the play, and just complies with Polonius's demands, sickens me. She should be questioning her husband about WHY he stood up and freaked out during the play, or asking her son /why/ he did this. She does not give him the benefit of the doubt, and that just makes me angry.
OH! Also, the fact that she says "What have I done, that thou dar'st wag thy tongue / In noise so rude against me?" (III.iv.41-42). What do you guys think of this passage? Do you think that she really has no idea as to why Hamlet is acting this way to her?
I was so confused/angry at Gertrude when she asked the question "What have I done, that thou dar'st wag thy tongue / In noise so rude against me?" (III.iv.41-III.iv.42) because it seems so blatantly obvious AND she had also previously mentioned that she thought his anger had to do with her "o'erhasty marriage" (II.ii.57). She may be trying to confirm that his anger is for sure because of her marriage, or it's possible that she's freaking out because Hamlet just stabbed and killed Polonius apparently hoping it was the king. I'm not sure that it's one of those or that she really doesn't know, but if she was trying to calm Hamlet down out of his rage, she should have gone with a different choice of words.
DeleteI agree with Hannah, my frustrations and confusion with Gertrude is amplified every single time that she enters a scene in this play. First of all, the fact that she allowed Polonius to listen in on their conversation demonstrated, in my mind, that she was afraid. But why be afraid if she simply wanted to talk to her son to figure out why he is acting out? It makes me think that the ambiguity she has displayed as a character implies that she has something to hide. Which brings me to my next point, to drag on Hannah's coattails. She doesn't even have the courage to accept the validity of Hamlet's condemnations of her marriage to her murderous brother-in-law. Her only response is for him to shut up when she implores "O speak to me no more! / These words like daggers enter in my ears. / No more, sweet Hamlet!" (III.iv.97-99). Although she does admit to being cut by his words, it is not a matter of whether or not his statement affects her because it is true, it is a matter of her decision being questioned. And even when Hamlet sees the ghost of his father, he calls him mad again!! If she had faith in her son, especially following his rant about Claudius being not worth one iota of his father's name, she would pay attention to his desperation, and look for the source. In ignorance, she claims to "all that is [she] sees" (III.iv.137). The truth is, that she has no idea, and is so out of touch with her son, and absorbed by her own confusion of self-preservation that she is incapable of seeing what was literally right in front of her.
DeleteGood point Mel-- the irony of that line is palpable, when you think of the implications across the broader spectrum of the play!
DeleteI think that, in this scene, Hamlet is not as much crazy as REALLY REALLY TICKED OFF. He uses very powerful diction with his mother stemming from his bitterness about her marriage to his uncle, such as comparing her choices to someone who "take[s] off the rose/ From the fair forehead of an innocent love/ And sets a blister there" (III.iv.43-III.iv.45), and describes her fate as "to live/ In the rank sweat of an enseamed bed,/ Stewed in corruption, honeying and making love/ Over the nasty sty!" (III.iv.93-III.iv.96). The disgusting nature and connotations of the words he uses correlate with the disgust he has been feeling about his mother and her decision to marry her brother-in-law. Although he seems to be mad, at least to the queen, when the ghost comes, he otherwise seems coherent and able to make sane, if enraged, arguments about all the people who have betrayed him in his life.
ReplyDeletePoor Hamlet, he really is tortured. I agree with the fact that he is not actually crazy, just confused as to what to do and how to convince his mother why Claudius is such a despicable man, and why his behavior is manifesting so abnormally. After his initial expressed disgust as Hannah pointed out towards the consummation between Claudius and Gertrude, Hamlet makes a super super weird request. At first he tells her to strategize and "refrain tonight / and that shall lend a kind of easiness / To the next abstinence; the next more easy" (III.iv.172-174). THEN, completely shifting his initial request, goes and asks her, in what is a very manipulative and bossy request, to slut herself up and allow the king to have his way with her so to speak, and in his moment of weakness and vulnerability, "Make you to ravel all this matter out / That I essentially am not in madness, / But mad in craft" (III.iv.193-195). Hamlet, even at the expense of his mother's already shaken mental state (not that I feel sorry for her) makes this huge request, just so the King won't suspect him. Crazy business.
DeleteGood discussion of diction and word connotation, Hannah.
Delete@Mel-- that line is super confusing. I think what Hamlet says is that his mother should NOT go be slutty with his uncle. She says, "What should I do?" He responds, "Not this, by no means, that I bid you do: [go be slutty with Claudius and tell him that I'm actually sane.]" So, in other words: DON'T do this. But the double negative makes it super convoluted. I wonder if Shakespeare did that to keep us guessing? I don't know.
DeleteI also don't believe that Hamlet is actually insane. I think he is extremely angry and has worked himself up into a rage because his theory about Claudius's guilt has just been verified. He also has been called before his mother for a scolding about his behavior like a child who has been naughty and pulled an inappropriate prank. This kind of condescension can't be easy for any grown man, even Hamlet. He may be exasperated and fed up with his apparent "descent into madness" being attributed to love sickness and other trivial matters when he is actually preoccupied with something much darker and more sinister.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I find it fascinating how quickly he manages to lose his temper.He has barely entered her bedroom when he pointedly mentions her questionable marital status. He acknowledges her place as queen and "would it were not so---... [his] mother" (III. iv. 15-16). He then goes on to threaten her physically causing her to fear for her life and shout "What wilt thou do? Thou wilt not murder me? / What, ho? Help, help, help!" (III, iv, 22-23). Although he is not completely mad, Hamlet does display irrational violent tendencies which leads me to believe that he may have cracked a little bit under the pressure of knowing such a terribly dangerous secret and fixating so much on plans for revenge. He also shows absolutely no hesitation in using deadly force on the eavesdropper hiding behind Gertrude's tapestry which is concerning.
I was also a little uncomfortable with all of the obvious lines he crossed when lambasting his mother's "incestuous" relationship in, um, disturbingly descriptive detail. While Gertrude more than deserves some very harsh criticism, there are just some things no one should discuss with a parent. This exchange further demonstrates Hamlet's manic state. I think he desperately wants his mother to understand how her careless actions have made him feel and he is willing to use any mean necessary, even violence, to accomplish this.
I found a very interesting quote at the end of Act III Scene II that made me consider a couple things. While Hamlet is all alone, he says "Let me be cruel, not unnatural; / I will speak daggers to her, but use non. / My tongue and soul in this be hypocrites: / How in my words soever she be shent, / To give them seals never my soul consent!" (394-398). This shed new light on the way Hamlet was acting with his mother, in my opinion. Initially, I read it and came to the conclusion that Hamlet had previously plotted to act exactly the way he did beforehand, prompting his mother to reveal the truth to him. However, as I read over the quote again, I got stuck at the phrase "but use none" (daggers), because then I realized that he in fact did kill Polonius violently. This made me reconsider my interpretation of Hamlet's actions as intentional or not. My mind was thrown back and forth as I considered the fact that maybe when Hamlet said he wouldn't use a dagger, it he was only referring to his mother, and whether he even cared if anyone else was harmed. Do anyone have anything to to add about this? What is your opinion? Being aware of his previous plans, do you think Hamlet was being completely intentional when he rants to his mother in a crazed state, or was this the madness overtaking him?
DeleteGreat job, incorporating that quote into your analysis Hanna! That's important to consider as we weigh just how calculated his behavior in this scene was.
DeleteSomething else that I want to hit on is Polonius in this scene. I am completely baffled as to why Gertrude was okay with Polonius listening in on their conversation. I mean, Gertrude could have just told Claudius what happened. I could understand maybe if he was sent for Gertrude's protection, but I think Hamlet still loves his mother even though she's been terrible to him. Furthermore, why on earth did Polonius yell out? Hamlet hadn't even made a move on Gertrude and he yells out. Also, why wouldn't he just run out from behind the the arras? It's his own fault that he is killed.
ReplyDeleteOne last thing I want to hit on is "A bloody deed--almost as bad, good Mother, / As kill a king and marry with his brother" (III.iv.29-30). I do believe that here Hamlet is saying that everything his mother has done was worse than him killing Polonius right then.He is definitely being a little harsh on his mother because we still don't know if Gertrude had anything to do with the murder, but I can understand why he is hurt that she married his uncle. Also, Polonius really went out with an anticlimactic ending. I'm kind of curious as to how Ophelia is going to feel when she finds out Hamlet killed her father.
I think Gertrude allowed Polonius to stay because she felt she had no choice in the matter. Like our dear friend Ophelia, Gertrude is thoroughly dependent on men, and fears to do anything that will potentially contradict her husband’s will. It enrages me so much; I want her to stand up for herself instead of passively adhering to whatever words are thrown her way, whether by Claudius, Polonius, or Hamlet. Now, about Polonius...
DeleteI love that you blame Polonius for his own death. I believe he was just trying to be noble and stop Hamlet from doing anything rash against his mother, but yelling out at a man you think is mentally and emotionally unstable does seem rather foolish. I think Polonius showed up because his passion in life is interfering with other people’s business and being an integrated part of the royal family. To me, Polonius is almost like that uncool kid who will do whatever it takes to be a part of the inner circle of the popular kids, and while sometimes they’ll use him for their own devices, he will never truly be one of them. And of course, now he’s dead. Also, I’m totally hearing what you’re saying in regards to Polonius’s anticlimactic demise. When Hamlet is about to drag his “guts” (W.C+, Shakespeare) into the other room, he says “This counselor / Is now most still, most secret, and most grave / Who was in life a foolish prating knave” (III.iv.120-122). Hamlet is being horribly disrespectful of the dead, treating him like nothing more than a pile of meat. Hamlet finds mild amusement in the irony of the talkative, wordy, dramatic fool finally falling silent and serious in death. I think it’s very crass, emphasizing how fixated he is on true vengeance against Claudius. Though he doesn’t want to get caught at the moment or leave his mother with this dead body, he isn’t even fazed by his impulsive action. It’s rather scary, actually; I wonder what drastic deed he will perform next.
Right?? And consider: earlier in this play-- in this ACT even-- Hamlet gave such intense consideration to the implications of death, but now-- with Polonius, and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern-- we see him killing people with little remorse or even thought. What's up with that?
DeleteAlso, I love that you congratulated Shakespeare on his word choice. Ha!
Also, the way Hamlet procures the likeness of both his father and his uncle and compares them physically struck me as very immature. He compares his late father to a Greek god stating that "his eyes could command like the god of war / his body as agile as Mercury just landing on a high / hill" (III, iv, 58-60). Hamlet obviously admired his father, perhaps even idolized him. He is trying very hard to remind his mother of all she gave up to be with a "mildewed ear" of corn (III, iv, 56). As if attractiveness are what really matter in this dire situation! With this blunt comparison, Hamlet beseeches his mother to reveal why she betrayed her husband by marrying his brother, because clearly it wasn't out of physical attraction or even romantic feelings, judging by Claudius's apparent repulsiveness. I think Gertrude just really enjoyed being queen, so much so that she was willing to downgrade in the spousal department to maintain her royal title. That is, if she wasn't a co-conspirator in the murder of Hamlet Sr. Hamlet may also be biased because he liked his father and strongly resents his uncle, so that probably factors into his assessment of their attributes.
ReplyDeleteGreat inference made, based on those Greek allusions Sonia-- Hamlet "idolized" his father. Effective read on that line!
DeleteOk, I really want to comment on this. So the arras is a big curtain right? Just hanging on the wall kind of thing? So there's no hidden door or anything, no way for anyone to get into the room and hide during the conversation, correct? And Hamlet had JUST seen Claudius on the ground, praying, right? So I find it strange to think that, considering how smart Hamlet is, that he actually thought that Claudius was able to go into the room and hide himself. Also the fact that a King would hide so lamely is a little unthinkable, he would never do it himself, he would have someone else do it or him, which is what he did. And considering Hamlet is smart, I feel like he knew that it wasn't the King that was behind the arras. Also, Hamlet seems so... nonchalant when he realizes that it was Polonius and not the king. All he says to the body is, "Thou wretched, rash, intruding fool, farewell! / I took thee for thy better. Take thy fortune" (III.iv.32-33). That seems so strange to say considering that he believed it to be his father. I personally would have been more shocked.
ReplyDeletePlease be honest with me, am I over analyzing this? Or did anyone else take his reaction to it being Polonius as kind of strange? Please let me know if you think differently, so that I can actually understand it better haha.
I totally thought the same thing, at least in terms of his reaction to killing who he supposedly thought was the king. Personally, I'd be shocked that I'd killed the wrong person and even more upset that I'd killed someone who was /mostly/ innocent. In addition to calling Polonius a fool after he killed him, Hamlet kinda continues to ignore the fact that he just killed someone who he thought was someone else and continues to argue with his mother about Claudius and then talks to his father's ghost. After that's all said and done, he's basically, like, "Oh, yeah, sorry about Polonius." They converse a little bit more and then Hamlet says he should get going because he just killed a guy and, "I'll lug his guts into the neighbor room. Mother, good night indeed" (III.iv.219-220). It made me question his sanity, like, how he could just kill someone and hardly show remorse that it was the wrong person? Even if I wasn't remorseful, I'd at least be freaking out more than Hamlet was. He's also in a pretty brutal situation as everyone has pointed out, so it's probably hard for him to make totally logical decisions and I really hope things get cleared up in his ol' noggin because I think he's just really missing his daddy and his "family" and "friends" are doing nothing to help his coping.
DeleteAmy, I was thinking the exact same thing when he said "I'll lug his guts into the neighbor room. Mother, Good night indeed" (III.IV.219-220) like, wow he wasn't shaken up about it all all, he kind of just shrugged it off as like oops, my bad. Definitely on the same page with you also when it comes to his sanity and everything. I feel bad for Hamlet!
DeleteAh, an interesting point Leyla. I didn’t even consider the timeline of the situation, and it does seem horribly irrational for anyone to think that Claudius would have had time to get to Gertrude’s room before Hamlet. His reaction to the murder is unseemly. Gertrude says “O me, what hast thou done?” (III.iv.27), and Hamlet returns “I know not. Is it the King?” (III.iv.28). To me, his response suggests a total lack of premeditation. He doesn’t think to wonder who the rat is, nor does he really care; all he wants to do is stab them for eavesdropping. It is only until after the fact he wonders if perhaps he has achieved his vengeful goal. He’s basically saying “hey, it’d be convenient and nice if it was Claudius”, but really hadn’t initially considered the possibility. Hamlet is portrayed as a very thoughtful individual, and that’s what makes an action like this so shocking. It is so out of character, and because of that suggests the possibility that feigning madness is indeed taking its toll on his mental state. Though I wholeheartedly believe that Hamlet is not presently insane, I am afraid that he will soon snap, and others will die by his hand.
DeleteCan this lead us to solving the question of his madness? Is Hamlet sane whenever he's thoughtful and pensive? Conversely, when he acts rashly and thoughtlessly, are those his moments of madness? Or are we just dealing with an erratic, emotionally volatile young man?
DeleteHamlet shows thought and appears meditative on his actions... feels no remorse for murder... I'm afraid we have a serial killer on out hands, guys. Well, not yet, but his tendencies definitely reflect that of a psychopath (or sociopath). A psychopath is not to be confused with insane: rather, psychopaths simply are unable to feel empathy for others. This seems rather odd, considering Hamlet's apparent love for Ophelia and distress over his fathers' death, but it's a bit concerning how Hamlet is unable to even pretend to mourn for Polonius. In fact, it seems very peculiar that Hamlet's first instinct when hearing "What ho! Help!" is to draw his sword and murder the source. (III, iv, 23) Considering all of his contemplative and sensitive thoughts, I am truly baffled as to why Hamlet so suddenly is willing to murder. Maybe Hamlet is not putting on an act of insanity, but rather is putting on an act of sanity in order to cover up the real insanity which he was already covering up in the first place! Okay, this may be a bit much, but considering Hamlet's intelligence and educated prowess towards every encounter he has, it is my only explanation for what Hamlet's deal could be at this point.
DeleteAlthough everyone is talking about Hamlet and Gertrude right now, I would like to point something else out: Polonius's stupidity. While he was hiding behind the curtain and Hamlet and Gertrude were going at it, Gertrude says to Hamlet, "What wilt thou do? Thou wilt murder me? / Help, ho!" (III, IV, 21-22). After hearing this, the mighty Polonius "springs into action" by yelling like a moron behind the curtain until Hamlet stabs him. I'm glad to see he thought that one out. I guess my question is why was Polonius behind the curtain in the first place if he had absolutely no idea how to handle the situation? Is his death the result of him just being dumb, or was there anything he could have actually done? Because, at least while I was reading it, I couldn't believe that his idea of "helping" (especially when Gertrude is saying that Hamlet is going to kill her) is standing behind a curtain yelling the word "help".
ReplyDeleteI love this! I was actually thinking about the same thing... Well sort of! But in the video that Mrs. Myers had us watch it shows them talking and then he leaves once he hears Hamlet coming. Since he is already suspicious of him going crazy, I feel like Polonius was making sure the Queen was okay. But Hamlet out of rage kills him. Which leaves me to think, how will Ophelia respond to this? Will she be content with it or will she hate Hamlet forever now?
DeleteThis scene though, was, well... to say the least, CRAZY! I think this was Hamlet's breaking point where his act consumes him. I feel as if though in a way he might be possessed. He was crazy until the ghost returned, but his mom cannot see the ghost. Why is that? But after the ghost left he was fine and then became super jumpy again. So my theory is that he is in fact possessed and has a little control but not complete control of himself when he goes mad. That's just my thought but does anyone else have an opinion on this?
Lastly, I found it interesting how he was forcing his mother to look at the pictures of his father and say "A bloody deed - almost as bad, good Mother, as kill a king and marry his brother" (Act 3, Scene 4, lines 28-29). I was shocked that he told her he knew! Was he trying to instill fear into her or did that slip?
I think I interpreted this scene a little differently than everyone else... I thought it believable that Polonius would hide behind the tapestry because he and the king hid from Hamlet's sight when he had the encounter with Ophelia and her love letters. They seem to have a bad habit of spying on each other, and when Hamlet finds out this time, he is simply enraged, and charged at the tapestry, hoping to kill the king who is primarily concerned in Hamlet knowing the truth.
DeleteI also imagined Polonius' line a little differently than the most common reading as well... When Hamlet is threatening Gertrude, Polonius cries out "What ho! Help!" (III. IX. 24). In my head, it was more of a muffled exclamation, like a gasp, or exclamatory of the time. He couldn't help himself just listening to the conversation and it slipped. Then I actually envisioned Polonius racking his mind and whispering to himself that they needed help, but Hamlet, with his sharp, youthful ears, heard him whispering and expecting there to be eavesdroppers of some sort, thrust his sword to kill who he believed to be his uncle. And his response was very interesting as well. I don't believe Hamlet was at all fond of Polonius as he probably aided in the plan to kill his father and also was the cause of all the conflict between he and Ophelia. Hamlet may even be relieved to get him out of the way, who knows?
Do you guys think this is a plausible interpretation?
In addition to my last blog, I wanted to point out both Hamlet and Gertrude's ignorance to the fact that Hamlet had just committed a murder. Literally right after Polonius dies, Hamlet starts calling Gertrude out again, and all she has to say is, "What have I done, that thou dar'st wag thy tongue / In noise so rude against me?" (III, IV, 40-41). As I was reading this, since this took place not even 10 lines after Polonius' death, all I could think about was how selfish Gertrude was. Here, her son had just murdered a man right in front of her, and yet all she is concerned about is the fact that he's being disrespectful. And then they just move on, acting as if it never happened, and never even acknowledging it until the end of the scene when Hamlet decides he should probably dispose of the body. But even then, he was talking about it as if someone would be talking about taking out the trash. It was in the sort of tone as if to say, I don't feel like dealing with this right now, but I guess it would be best to just get it over with." What do you guys think? Do you think this is Shakespeare's way of showing their universal disrespect for Polonius? I know Hamlet disrespected him from the beginning, but does Gertrude's equal disrespect for Polonius suggest that nobody really liked him, and only used him because they could? Or on the other hand, did they not really care about his death because of everything else that was going on in the scene? Basically, were they just briefly blinded by anger, or did they legitimately not care about Polonius?
ReplyDeleteOoh that is a really good question, I was wondering the same thing but couldn't really articulate it. This scene in general was really odd, and I feel like, in response to your question, maybe it was a little bit of both. I think they were most definitely blinded by anger. I feel like Gertrude probably has disrespect for Polonius but no where near the amount of disrespect that Hamlet has for him. I think the lack of emotion shown towards the fact that Hamlet just killed Polonius could also be one of those things that happens and it's so shocking that you almost don't even believe it happened. In the video of this scene, at the end when Hamlet is dragging the body away, Gertrude laughs but it quickly turns from a laugh to this distressed cry, almost as if it is starting to sink in.
DeleteNathan I think it is not that they do not care for Polonius. I believe that both Hamlet and Gertrude hold the same view of him. Polonius in their minds was like a dog, always following at his master's (Claudius') feet constantly trying to appease his master, and always obeying orders. What I draw this conclusion from is, "Thou wretched, rash, intruding fool, farewell!" (Act III. Scene IV). In addition, I believe only Hamlet was blinded with anger. If you watched the video it portrays Hamlet as almost mad: throwing his mother, yanking her hair, and screaming in her face. Hamlet in the video was literally strong arming his mother into submission.
DeleteNathan I think you stumbled upon a great question worth discussing. I find characters like Polonius irksome. I think Shakespeare meant for the audience to have a strong distaste for Polonius, so his death would almost sooth the tension in the audiences' minds. On the other hand, the indifference shown in both Gertrude and Hamlet can be do to, what I like to call "The Gatsby Effect." At the end of Gatsby, Nick says all Daisy and Tom did was hurt and people, run away, and let others deal with it. This could possibly be the scenario for Hamlet and Gertrude's lack of sympathy for Polonius. They were royalty, meaning they could kill anyone they want who was lesser than them. Hamlet shows total disrespect for Polonius when he says, "I took thee for thy better. Take thy fortune. Thou find'st to be too busy is some danger. - Leave wringing of your hands. Peace, sit you down" (Act III. Scene IV. 33-35). Here Hamlet talks down to Polonius and mocks him for a fool. I spotted some dark humor in here as well. When Hamlet says, "Peace, sit you down," he is telling Polonius to sit down, but Polonius is dead so he is already sitting down. Just thought that was kind of funny. Anyways, my question was, How does Polonius' death make you feel? Did Shakespeare have the same affect on you making Polonius a rat?
DeleteYou guys are doing a great job, considering the apparent emotional callousness that Hamlet displays after killing Polonius. And yet, Hamlet seemed so deeply sensitive at the start of this play. How has he changed? What has caused the change in him?
DeleteIn response to Eric's question: I have mixed emotions for the man they call Polonius. On the one hand, you've got a nosy rat who wants Gertrude to "lay home to him" in reference to the conversation with Hamlet. This shows Polonius' need for complete control in situations that don't directly require his assistance. As evidenced in his demeaning relationship with Laertes and his controlling and "reassuring" advice towards Ophelia, Polonius is a man who feels the need to be in charge in most situations. While undoubtedly a wise man, it seems that his attempts to leave a strong impression, or his own seal of approval, on every situation he encounters is not exactly a beneficial quality. On the flip side of that same coin, however, I do feel slight remorse for Polonius. Something about picturing an elderly man being stabbed through a curtain, only to be unceremoniously drug out and considered common trash kind of upsets my conscious.
DeleteThe quote was from (III, iv, 1)
DeleteWhat I wanted to focus on was the video's perspective of the play. From the beginning we see a angered Hamlet storm in sassing his mother. Then after shooting Polonius, Hamlet falls into a self induced madness. He yells at his mother forcing her to recognize the sin she had committed. Then we see him cowering on the ground in fear of the ghost, "Save me, and hover o'er me with your wings, You heavenly guards! What would your gracious figure?" (Act III. Scene IV). However, Hamlet seams to come back to reality and with the exiting of the ghost, the reentering of his sanity. He seams so lucid, "my two schoolfellows whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd" (Act III. Scene IV). Hamlet knows Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are working for Claudius. Finally, the play ends with the mother and son weeping in each others' arms before Hamlet leaves, totally sane, dragging the body away.
ReplyDeleteHere is my questions for you all. Why does the video make it so Hamlet descends are ascends into and out of darkness as the scene went on? Why do Gertrude and Hamlet act like they had forgiven each other at the end of the scene? Finally, did the video match the view you had of the scene?
What I found interesting is the fact that Hamlet flat out accuses Gertrude of murdering his father without blinking! When he kills Polonius (not too happy that I'm dead now, btw) and Gertrude calls it a bloody act, he responds almost nonchalantly with, "A bloody act - almost as bad, good mother, as kill a king and marry with his brother". Like, seriously? You kill someone, a human being, having no idea who it is, and point figures at your mom for another crone, showing no remorse for your own?? I feel like this might actually go to prove that he is INSANE! He takes a life without a care in the world... Something not quite right with him...
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with this statement! I found it interesting that Hamlet just killed Polonius without even thinking about it. He never once got upset or even missed a beat in yelling with Gertrude. But instead of feeling remorse, he kills Polonius, turns around and states, “A bloody deed- almost as bad, good Mother, [as] kill a king and marry with his brother” (Act 3, Scene 4, Lines 31-32). This cold- blooded murder shocked me because I expected there to be SOME kind of remorse or even confusion. But why would Hamlet just automatically stab the curtains? That seems a bit strange to me. He did not even think about whose voice it was, or anything. He heard someone speak and just immediately STABS the curtains. That’s like the equivalent to me thinking I hear someone behind me while I am cutting up food, and when the person walks into the room, I just stab them. It is thoughtless and clearly crazy. This proved to me that Hamlet has some real issues working in his brain. When his father died, a switch in his brain went off and now Hamlet seems set off by even the littlest of things. His lack of remorse for someone he just murdered also shows how unbalanced his brain is during these scenes.
DeleteAlso, in this quote, we get another possible view as to the murder of King Hamlet. Personally, I do not believe Gertrude could have done it. She seems very quiet and careful throughout the play. She always does as King Claudius wishes. If she did commit it, she had to have been forced. The ghost, in the beginning, speaks as though Gertrude did not have any part in the murder. Another reason I say she had nothing to do with the murder is because when Hamlet accuses her of killing King Hamlet, she exclaims in response, “As kill a king!” (Act 3, Scene 4, Line 29). She seems taken back by surprise that her son would accuse her of such a thing. Later in her conversation with her son, she keeps asking him why he is so rude to her and what has she ever done wrong. Truthfully, I believe she is clearly hurt by her son’s accusations. Gertrude is being beat up emotionally. I feel as though she is completely innocent.
As a question to anyone that might respond to this: What is going to happen now that Polonius is dead? What do you foreshadow happening for the rest of the play?
I don't think the video portrays this part of the play as Hamlet ascending and descending into darkness. I think this movie depicts Hamlet as full blown crazy. Regardless of his murdering of Polonius, he is still yelling and crying at his mother. I mean, it's pretty clear the guy has lost it. Moreover, I don't think the two forgave each other at the end of the scene at all. Hamlet despises his mother, especially when he speaks of her sins as "Such an act That blurs the grace and blush of modesty, Calls virtue hypocrite, takes off the rose From the fair forehead of an innocent love And sets a blister there, makes marriage vows As false dicer's oaths" (Act III. Scene IV. 43-46). It is clear that Hamlet loathes his mother, but still loves her. This is why I don't think that they forgive each other. I think that they just come to some agreement that they are both doomed and crazy and that is why Gertrude starts to cry at the end of the scene. As far as how the movie depicts the play in this scene. I think it put an illustration directly to my imagination, meaning I think it was perfect.
ReplyDeleteNot very many people are talking about Polonius so I'll leave my peace with him. I find it so ironic that he's killed while hiding behind the arras. While Shakespeare's text seems to incriminate him quite a bit throughout the plot, the RSC's rendition makes him seem like a lovable fool, always losing his train of thought and overstating things. As advisor to the king, it's hard to blame him for his thorough investigation into Hamlet's condition. Yet I still might characterize his only sin to be constantly spying. I always picture him as a rat, and Oliver Davies does share a similar appearance and complextion. Time after time after time, he's ruining his son Laertes reputation or he is manipulating Ophelia and her gentle feelings to uncover Hamlet's secret. It's only fitting he is killed in the act of his treachery, though it is mild in comparison to that of the murderer, Claudius. Throughout the play, I've considered there to be two types of "wit". That of Polonius which is constantly proved to be wrong, such as when he assumes Hamlet's madness stems from Ophelia, and that of Hamlet which demonstrates patience, skill, wisdom, and great philosophy. Ultimately, I think his death at the hand of Hamlet communicates the death of this wit, and furthermore a confirmation of Hamlet's sanity. Hamlet comments, "This bad begins," referring to Polonius's death, "and worse remains behind" showing that his mad state is no longer necessary (v. 186). He accepts full responsibility for the deed which may also be seen to focus the battle between him and Claudius as his advisor, and now that I think about it, main soldier is dead.
ReplyDeleteA thought: if Shakespeare meant to portray Polonius as (at best) foolish or (at worst) dangerously conniving, why would he give him such wise, quotable lines? Some of the most famous lines from this play come from Polonius-- "Brevity is the soul of wit," "To thine own self be true," "Clothes make the man," and so on. Why give him clear nuggets of wisdom if he's meant to look like a fool?
DeleteIt struck me as odd as to why Polonius had to be in there for the conversation. Think about it. Polonius had to be in the room while Ophelia was talking to Hamlet but that time he just stayed hidden better. So, while reading these scenes and pondering over what his reason was for having to be in there. My first idea seems to be the most logical. I believe Polonius has a problem with jumping to conclusions; he seems even a bit mentally unstable himself. He jumped to the conclusion that the reason for Hamlet’s crazy behavior was because Polonius separated Hamlet and Ophelia. However, there are many hints that Polonius should have seen that would have forced him to see it another way. Hamlet completely pushes Ophelia away and tells her he never loved her and this play Hamlet set up is all about death and kings being killed. Yet Polonius still sticks to this idea that it is because of Ophelia.
ReplyDeleteAlso, this made me wonder, Did Polonius have anything to do with the murder of King Hamlet? He seems to get all freaked out whenever someone is going to be left alone with Hamlet which is why he stayed to spy on Ophelia and Gertrude. Ophelia is his daughter so I could imagine he would be more protective of her. But Gertrude is where it starts to get confusing. My personal opinion: Polonius (if he did help with the murder of Hamlet’s father) knows EXACTLY why Hamlet has gone crazy. Polonius is now worried that in Hamlet’s revengeful and insane state, Hamlet will kill or hurt anyone who has any kind of attachment to the king- this would especially include Gertrude and Polonius.
In order to analyze the text, I seem to vaguely remember Polonius coming up to Hamlet in the last scene and telling him that Gertrude had requested to see him. This is interesting because I am not so sure it was entirely Gertrude’s idea to talk to Hamlet; I think it was all Polonius idea because he is really guilty about something and it is just gnawing away at his insides. The scene opens with Polonius quickly telling Gertrude, “’A will come straight. Look you lay home to him. Tell him his pranks have been too broad to bear with, [and] that Your Grace hath screened and stood between [much] heat and him” (Act 3, Scene 4, Lines 1-5). To me, this seems like Polonius was the reason Hamlet had to go talk to his mom; it was not Gertrude’s idea because Polonius is telling Gertrude what she must say to her son! Secondly, when Gertrude says loudly, “Help, ho,” Polonius had the brilliant idea to jump out and yell, “What ho! Help!” (Act 3, Scene 4, Lines 26-27). I feel as though my point was made clear. Polonius jumps to conclusions. He thought Hamlet was going to hurt his mom so Polonius decided to “keep watch” so that he could either protect Gertrude from the raging Hamlet OR he could learn the reason for Hamlet’s insanity. But once Gertrude seems to yell, Polonius thought something was wrong and jumped to the conclusion that Gertrude was being attacked. In the end, his jump to conclusions got him killed.